Talking Real Estate Investing
On this episode of Next Level American Dream, Abigail and Sean are joined by Tim Herriage. Tim is a Real Estate Investor and he started and sold many real estate related companies including lenders, brokerage agencies, insurance agencies, several investment entities and what is now known as Think Realty Expo. Tim is now taking a family first approach to life and business, and that's what our conversation is about today.
Key Topics
How to ensure your life fits your business?
Why invest in real estate?
Connect with Tim:
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
business, people, Multifamily, life, barbecue, book, year, podcast, money, investing, family, entrepreneurs, Tim, talk, run, sold, American Dream, house, watch, companies
SPEAKERS
Sean Thomson, Abigail Thomson, Tim Herriage
Tim Herriage 00:00
Welcome to the Next Level American Dream Podcast brought to you by Thomson Multifamily Group. Your hosts, Abigail and Sean, will discuss how you can take your American Dream to the next level, through real estate investing, business practices, and personal development. Join us as we share our experiences as a father daughter duo who are trying to accomplish our goal of financial freedom. We hope you learn more about how to define and achieve your American Dream. Here's another episode of Next Level American Dream.
Sean Thomson 00:33
Today on the Next Level American Dream Podcast, we talk to Tim Herriage. Tim is a very successful real estate investor acquiring more than 1500 properties and a total of more than a billion dollars in transactions. He started and sold many real estate related companies including lenders, brokers, agencies, insurance agencies, several investment entities, and what is now known as think realty expert. Tim has worked on Wall Street helping Blackstone's be to establish its investor lending business, he's been a part of transactions as small as a $3,000 house in Dallas to an undisclosed $230 million deal. Tim is now taking a family first approach to life in business.
Sean Thomson 01:07
Hi, Tim, how you doing? Welcome to the show.
Tim Herriage 01:10
Good man, how are you doing?
Sean Thomson 01:11
I'm doing good. I appreciate you coming on. You know, we've known each other for quite a while. And I've always respected and, and like the way you do business, and it seems like we're, we're like good buddies, we'd never talk to each other. You know, but I think I think of you as a good friend. And I think a lot of it's just because we kind of think is pretty similarly in the way we conduct our daily lives, our business, our families, and stuff like that. So if it's okay with you, I'd like to just talk to you kind of about your journey so far in real estate and what you've been doing last couple years, and then kind of where you're headed. Is that right?
Tim Herriage 01:44
Yeah!
Sean Thomson 01:46
We met when I started with home busters, you know, probably, it's been close to a decade ago, now. And you really were the catalyst for keeping me alive in that business. I was about five months in. And I was doing the system. And I would just keep doing the system. And I couldn't understand why I wasn't converting those properties. And I came to you one day and I said, Hey, Tim, I don't get it, you know, and I had this one property, that was a problem, I'd run the whole system and, and you sort of took the lead on it and, and got everything sorted out and bought the property. And I saw I watched you do that. It was like, it was an epiphany moment. You know, it's like I see, it was that, you know, when you're when you start something and people training you and teaching you they teach you the methodology, but they don't teach you the tweaks, right? And I saw, I saw you with the experience, take that one property and and take the tweak and go Okay, so now I know, I know, the tweak to the system, right? And that was the that was what changed everything for me.
Tim Herriage 02:46
You shared that Facebook post with me last week or so ago, it was a, I've always enjoyed watching entrepreneurs and I can't say young entrepreneurs, because I see it out of people that are in their 20s. And I see it out of people that are in their 60s. You know, I've always enjoyed that conversion process and watching the lights go on. And and I mean, that was a fun deal we did with you. And I mean, we've done a lot of deals with you, we've helped you borrow money from people, I've loan your money, not like loaned you money, but like on houses. And you know, I like following what you got going on. Now. I mean, you you can always bleed through the BS when you see someone taking a bike ride at 11am on a weekday. And then, because there's a lot of people that talk about being an entrepreneur that they get, they're more busy than employees are, they don't have time for anything they want to do. And so lately with your the path that you're on now, I've enjoyed watching it, because when I see you taking a bike ride at 11am on a Wednesday, it tells me that you're grounded, and you're still kind of tied in with who you are and what you won't. And I wish more entrepreneurs had that.
Sean Thomson 04:05
well, you know, I started my business when I started with the story we were just talking about when I started. And I was just grinding and grinding and grinding and I ended up gaining like 60 pounds, you know, I was unhealthy and all these other things in the last couple years. I just decided, hey, look, this, there's got to be a better way to do this, you know? And I think you're you kind of had the same thing. You You started several companies and built this big thing. And I think you've kind of backed up a little bit, right. So tell me kind of you started you know, you started with the single family business and buying and selling single family residences and wholesaling, rentals, all that stuff, and you transitioned into a corporate life a little bit too, tell me about that transition.
Tim Herriage 04:49
Yeah, you know, so I started out investing about a year after the Marine Corps and that was back in 2001. And that's really just all I did up until about 2012-2013. When I started a trade show called The REI Expo, ran that for a couple years sold that someone after we had the opportunity, I'd spoke at a conference called the five star conference. And I was approached by Blackstone to start a beat to our finance, which is now find a Finance of American Commercial. And that was you talking about a whirlwind two and a half years of being on three to five planes a week, having offices in six states, having hundreds of employees and it was a dream, Shawn, you know, I had an office on Madison Avenue in New York City, right, you know, and I got to fly in first class, and I had a private driver everywhere I went, and it was cool. And it was fancy, and it was miserable, at the same time. And so, you know, I ended up resigning from that after about two and a half years, I've kind of gotten it where I originally envisioned we've done, you know, well, over a billion dollars in loans, we were the clear industry leader. And so it was time for me to leave, I'm more of a builder than a maintainer if you start looking at some of these personality scales, and then, but I fell right back into that trap, I started this company called turn 2020 REI group. And next thing, you know, I've got, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars a month in overhead and 50 or 60 employees running around. And we're doing millions and millions of dollars a year in revenue, with millions and millions of dollars a year worth of expenses. And I was in rush hour traffic every morning, trying to get to the office and staying until after rush hour so that I could get my work done and missing dinners with the family and missing important events. And you know, in April of 2018, we had an issue one of my son's where he got injured in a track event and I wasn't there and it's just the the next day was just one of those epiphany moments. It was, you know, he's gonna be gone soon. And I'm not making him a priority. And I've got a 10 year old now. And I just decided that as long as I have kids in my house, they're going to be the priority. So I sold the companies, I shut down the ones that weren't really sellable. And now, you know, I've got a little home office and even during this Coronavirus scare, our monthly overhead is so negligible that, you know, we just we don't have to sell a house to pay our bills. And we don't have to do a loan to pay our bills. And so it's really just freed me up to spend time with my kids. You know, I make breakfast every morning for them. I cook them lunch, sometimes I'm almost always cooking dinner, something on the smoker out in the backyard. So I'm really kind of finally giving in and started living the entrepreneurial entrepreneurial life I always talked about.
Sean Thomson 08:02
Right, Yeah. So you went, you went to corporate life for a little bit, saw that it was just just soaking up your time for your family and everything else other than what they wanted, or what they needed. But then you went you came out of there, and you built with big and built your own thing too, right? Yeah, yeah. So it's, and then I guess through all that process, you finally learned, hey, this is what's most important to me this, you know, and so now you've adjusted your life to really, you've adjusted your business to fit your life as opposed to the other way around. I think that's a great story in that most entrepreneurs, they're trying to rule the world. And that's not what it's about. It's about, creating a life and a family and whatever it is that you want to have in your life that you can be happy with and proud of, and, you know, every day becomes something you enjoy. Right?
Tim Herriage 08:53
Yeah, you know, I mean, it's been a journey. And there are times that my entrepreneurial mind and my ego get the best of me and I start thinking about doing something quote unquote, "big again." And I, I've just finally reached the maturity level to where I can put that in check. And I can say, No, I don't need to do that. I don't want to do that. What I want to do is, I mean, I think today's Friday, it's hard to keep track of days of the week right now. But you know, what I want to do is go hang out by the pool with my 10 year old and watch him and his friends play and light the grill and drink a couple beers and listen to country music and just hang out here at my house. That's what I wanted. And that's just kind of what I've been doing.
Sean Thomson 09:50
Yeah, that's what that's what you will be doing as soon as you're done talking to me probably right? Yeah?
Tim Herriage 09:54
Yep, yep. Yep, it's 100 degrees, which means it's time to get out there and a light a fire figure out something to cook and then jump in the pool to cool off.
Sean Thomson 10:04
So I was gonna ask you sort of what are you doing now? So you started your companies, you sold everything off. You've adjusted your business down to a level that gives you the freedom that you need but also covers what you're expected to do to do financially in your life. You're You know, you're you're still on a path to financial freedom, I'm sure. So what is it? What is your What does your life look like now in terms of structure, you're buying and selling a single family homes, but you're working from home and you're making sure you have plenty of time for family? So kind of run through? If you had to, I guess what would a day look like for you now or week look like for you now? Well, you got a podcast, don't you have a couple podcasts too, that you're doing yourself?
Tim Herriage 10:43
I do. I don't publish very regularly. It's something I want to fix this, you know, because I do enjoy sharing the message of life pursuing people's desire lifestyle, but you know, I think my, I've got my life now to where, you know, the typical morning, I wake up 6:30-7:00 o'clock, grab myself a cup of coffee, grab the newspaper, actually, still, I'm kind of an old soul. I still read the actual paper newspaper. And I'll tell you they are thrown in my driveway every morning. But it's you know, it's a nice routine, I get up, I take the dog out, the dog runs around in the yard, we live on three acres and walk out to the street and grab the paper and I sit on the back deck most mornings and till probably nine o'clock, just sit there and read the paper play some Sudoku, think about the day and meditate. I'm a very grateful person, for the freedoms that we have in this country. And the fact that someone like me that, you know, my family didn't have the money to send me to college. And I'm living the life of millionaire. So it's, it's it's a great feeling every morning, and I reflect on that, and I'm grateful for it every morning. You know, typically around nine o'clock or so I'll make the kids breakfast, come into my office around 10, read some emails, read some newsletters. I spent most of my day yesterday and today looking for a place to hunt this fall because it looks like they're going to cancel a football season and probably cancel school for my kids. So instead of letting them spend their time playing video games in the house, I bought an RV last week travel trailer. And we're just going to see the world and we're going to hunt and we're going to fish and spend time outdoors and travel around. But then, you know, I typically make lunch around one do a little bit more work. Most days by 3:30-4:00 o'clock, you can find me in the backyard. I've got a barn that you know, we've got a truck we're working on down there and a tractor and right now I'm working on remodeling that RV because we're going to start using it in a week or two. Yeah, I mean, you'll find country music blaring and smoke coming out of my cabana about every day of the week.
Sean Thomson 13:05
Yeah, barbecue is a big part of your life, your name your podcast too, Business and Barbecue. So, barbecue is a big part of your life and you're doing that quite a bit as well?
Tim Herriage 13:14
Yeah, you know, the barbecue part is, it was part of my awakening. It was I love I've always loved barbecue. Being from Texas, it's kind of a big part of the culture here. And there were all these highly rated places that I've never taken the time to go. Yeah, and you know, which is just asinine. When you're the boss, you're the CEO, you own your own companies, and you don't have time to do the things you want. And so part of the Business and Barbecue Podcast is making time for the things that mean the most to you in life and in for me barbecue is something I appreciate. I love to eat it a year and a half ago, I was not good at making it. But I had a passion for it. So I started diving into it. And it's a creative outlet. For me, I like to take the pictures and make it look pretty. I like to make it better than every time that it was the time before. And it's always a challenge. And I do like a challenge. And I think that's where a lot of people that try to take it a little easy in life go wrong is they they you have to have something that's going to satisfy that creative part of yourself. I imagine it's a big reason you're doing the podcast because I know how liberated you felt that you got to start doing the multifamily and that your daughter was going to get involved and all that. But you know, when you're only buying one or two deals a year versus one or two a month, you got to have some sort of creative outlet something to get your juices going that that that that type a red personality that we all have and the warm business for ourselves. And so, you know, for me, it's been barbecue you know, today I've got some scallops that I bought fresh, and I'm gonna find a way to cook them and I've never cooked To scalp in my life, it's either gonna be really good, or dog food, one or the other. But that's the fun part about it. And I'll try again, you know? So I like the challenge. I like the process. I like that there's no one piece of meat or food that's made the same. I like to add spices. You know, you taught me about that Prowl scale, acids and the bases, and it's become a part of my life.
Sean Thomson 15:31
Yeah.
Tim Herriage 15:32
So this morning, I had a kale smoothie. And it sounds awful. Definitely. It's definitely not something that you know, you would pick as your last meal ever. But to balance out my system, and to make sure I feel good. That was my breakfast this morning. Okay, the kids bacon and eggs and biscuits, and I had a kale smoothie. And I blame that on you.
Sean Thomson 15:57
Well, it's a it's a good thing, though. I'm happy you're blaming it on me, because it's a good thing. But yeah, you have to balance it. Just like with life, you got to balance your body. You got to balance your life, right?
Tim Herriage 16:07
Yeah. And I've lost weight. I feel better. I don't get heartburn anymore. Yeah, because when you're eating all those high acidic meats and smoke on top of them, and spices, and your body will start to rebel and, and swell, actually. So adding in a lot of spinach and vegetables, and you know, kale and stuff like that has been helpful for me. It's been kind of funny. Now, when I'm at a restaurant, if I taste something like there's this place here in Rockwall, called de nada, and they make really good roasted vegetables. And so one day, and I love them, but every time I tried to make them here, I, they were not really good. And so I just went to the chef and said, Hey, can you tell me how you make those? And he was like, Yeah, sure. And you show me. And the trick was, I wasn't using high enough heat. So anyway, now when I make the roasted vegetables, I mean, it's just really, really good. And yeah, you know, we play around with it. Right. And that's, that's been the fun part. It actually keeps me entertained. But it also has become a family thing. Like my kids, especially my oldest, the big one. That's a linebacker, I mean, he gets really excited whenever I'm telling him what I'm going to be cooking for the week. It's so it's not only satisfying my creative outlet outlet, it actually gets me more involved with my family as well, which which is his he's the whole reason that we all want to build these empires, you know, but, you know, for me, is you know, when you first came into the business, I was Mr. superstar. Ah, yeah. Any conversation in DFW would involve my name. And, you know, it was hard to step back and give that up, you know, now there's a lot more popular people in the DFW Metroplex in the real estate investing industry. But you know, I've got a saying, you know, take popularity to the bank and try to deposit right, and they don't cash that check. So, you know, back to your question about what we do now, kind of in the business, it's, we've got a really good even mix, we're keeping about one rent house a month, because long term asset appreciation and inflation shield is still under tax advantages, is still really high priority for me, we don't really assign contracts a lot anymore, we used to do a lot of that, as you know, with the current market, and there's such a lack of inventory in the under $200,000 price point, we've just been closing on houses, cleaning them out, and selling them to a family at a discount. And, you know, two things about that. And I don't want to get too technical, but you know, an assignment of contract type transactions, really high stress, it's hard to touch, you've got all these timelines you have to meet, you're not really in control. And it drives you into a lifestyle into a business rhythm that is not conducive with being relaxed and happy.
Sean Thomson 19:13
Well, there's marginal compression in that business too. So the Martin You know, when your margin is compressed to a, to a rate that you've got to accelerate your velocity in that business, so you've got to, you've got to turn so many deals, in order to get in order to get the money that you need. It's it's a much more complex business than people think it is.
Tim Herriage 19:33
Yeah, and so you know, now by by kind of not doing that, and just closing on the houses, and just fixing the houses all the way or most of the way, we become in charge of the timelines, and you have a lot less prizes and urgent fires. So you make more money, like you said, I mean, like this house that we closed on today, I was telling you about in Grand Prairie We probably could have made about $5,000. If we were to just assign it to someone. And then I have advertising cost and sales commissions and acquisitions commissions with my team. And instead, we make a little over 30,000. A month later, just by being a little bit more methodical in the approach, right?
Sean Thomson 20:24
Let's talk about so I think you and I are similar in our, in our businesses. Now, you know, I never, I never run to build a big Empire, I always wanted to just be a real estate investor, as an individual, I didn't want a bunch of employees, I still don't really want a lot of employees. So I my business is always been fairly small. I do what I can in terms of volume and things like that with my single family business, but I've never really wanted to be one of those people that does 100 houses a year, like you were doing. Or plus, I've never wanted to do just those numbers, right. But I think even doing a business that is, whatever you can make it to be, it's going to take a lot of your time, right. And most approaches that people have, as an entrepreneur, when they're first getting started is like, like you said, to build an empire to rule the world. And really, what I think people should be thinking about is what kind of life Do I want to build, right? So you have to include your health, your family, your friends, you have to include all those things in your life, when you're kind of thinking of your of your business and how you're going to run your life. So tell me, we touched on it a little bit about what you're doing now. But what was it that kind of transitioned you? I guess you said there was an incident with your son, right? That that that was the that was the the trigger that fired in your brain that said, Hey, I need to rethink how I'm doing this. So talk to me a little bit about do you think people get caught up in that in that going big scenario? And and how is it that you think people should be thinking about that?
Tim Herriage 22:00
You know, on my website, the header. text says, "The business is a vehicle, not the dream." And that's something I came up with because too often, we start a business because of a dream. And then forget the dream, and spend way too much time on the business instead of the dream. And a lot of times, and I see entrepreneurs in this all the time, and I can't mention some names because people reach out to me a lot privately and ask for advice because they get overextended with their overhead. They get overextended with their personnel. And I'm very public about my struggles and stories with that. And, and I help them out with it in a very private nature. But, you know, my brother in law once said to me, he said, Man, keep it small and keep it all. And at the time I made fun of him. Right? I was like, You lack ambition. You don't see the bigger picture. Ah, you ever watched The Lorax? The Disney movie, The Lorax?
Sean Thomson 23:05
I haven't seen the whole thing.
Tim Herriage 23:07
It's a Dr. Seuss book to it. It's in one of the things that it's making it better and better and better, or more or, and that's what people do in their businesses. They think, man, you know, I'm making this and it's good. But if I could just do this, then I'll make more and it'll be better. And they're not accounting for the time, the energy, the effort, the friction and the lost experiences that are inherent along the way. And when I say experiences, I mean your kids soccer game. I mean, making breakfast.
Sean Thomson 23:44
Yeah, making breakfast for the kids, right?
Tim Herriage 23:47
Yeah, picking your 10 year old up from school on a day that he was we don't do that anymore. But you know, on a day that he had a problem with another kid, and your son can ask his father for advice when he needs it, versus when you're later that night whenever you're home and you're in a bad grumpy mood. So you know, a lot of I measure a lot of it about just being there for them, trying to help them grow into the young men, I won't I have two sons. I don't have any daughters, kind of help my young boys grow into the young men that I want them to be. And, you know, I spent a lot of time talking to my family and in just prioritizing the things that when I'm on my deathbed will have meant something to me. Because although I like you a lot, and I love to sit and drink with you and talk with you and consider you a friend on my deathbed. I'm not going to be grateful that I helped you flip a house in garland. You know, right. I may be grateful that you and I had shared personal experiences. I may be grateful. You taught me about the prowl scale, I may be grateful that I got to, I learned a lot about Arkansas real estate by talking to you like, those are the things that matter, relationships, real conversations, the millions of dollars I've made. It's just not important. And I know that sounds elitist, and there may be someone listen to this, like, million dollars, would be good for me, Tim. But, you know, some of the best years that I've had, personally, I have no correlation with my best years financially. You know, and I think, you know, learning to run a really tight ship and control your expenses and plan for the future. And not just the future of the business, but the future of your marriage, the future of your, you know, kids is something that a lot of people overlook, they get so they spend their entire day and you can always tell it's the people that are, you know, posting on Facebook, all weekend long about how great it is to be an entrepreneur. And I'm like, Oh, no, man, we because you won't see me posting from Friday till Saturday till Monday. Unless it's something just really funny about business, because it's not what I'm focused on, I'm focused on you'll see me posting barbecue, you'll see me posting pictures of my kid riding his dirt bike, you know?
Sean Thomson 26:28
Do you think it took that building those companies and and and sort of having that incident with your son? to get you to realize that or do you think you're on that path anyway, eventually, I think that's what a lot of people go through is they, they like you said they, they want to build this empire. And then they have an epiphany moment. I mean, you and a couple other friends of mine, we all have some sort of similar stories is that we just decided one day, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna try and build this empire anymore. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna look out for everything else that's important to me. So do you think do you think people kind of have to go through that process? Or is there is there a way to sort of see that from the beginning?
Tim Herriage 27:14
I absolutely do not think that they have to go through the pain hole, no pain, no gain, is not something that I really believe in. To me, what you have to do is you have to be open and focused, open to grow and focused on reality. And Gary Keller wrote the book, The Millionaire real estate investor, it's a great book. And it talks about how networking can help you skip rungs on the ladder to success. And I think this is a personal thing. But you can still, if you hear other people's story, you can realize, as soon as you start doing it, you know, you can say Wait, this is what that Tim, that Tim and Shawn were talking about. This is this is not who I want to be this, I want to be a father and a husband, I don't want to be a real estate investment. Right. You know, and, and I think just like with your body, you have to be careful what you put into it. I think with your mind, you have to be careful what you put into it, because there's going to be a lot of people specifically in the real estate world that will talk you into going to conferences and spending a bunch of money and buying mentor packages and things like that, that will not they'll just teach you to be an employee of yourself. And you know, the Rich Dad Poor Dad cashflow quadrant, right. I mean, it's, you know, if your life is no different as an entrepreneur than it was as a full time employee for someone else, what have you really gained from working more? If you're more unhealthy? If you're more of an angry, irritable person? What was it all for you? No, I I think that's just I could probably just keep repeating that because I don't think people have to go through it. To answer your question. I think what they have to do is listen to someone that has and learn from their story, which is, like I told you and like I'm like, you mean, it's one of the reasons I like to share my story because, you know, I went through some pain and I cause some pain for my family. That was completely avoidable that if I just been focused on you know what my stated mission was, it would have helped a lot. Sean, I already prioritized it. It was already a priority. I just wasn't I was just allowing something else to run.
Sean Thomson 30:02
Right. And that's kind of what I was hoping we would get to in this conversation is, there's, it's okay to want to build an empire, it's okay to want to build all these things. And it's okay to have these desires. But I think a lot of people, they start, like you said, they start getting down these pads of going to a conference and learning how to do something and they start just doing things that are not necessarily going to get them closer to where they want to go, there's a, there's a good way for you for every individual to do what you want to do in your life and achieve your financial freedom. But you don't have to, you don't have to neglect everything else in your life, you can still build a beautiful family, a beautiful life, take care of yourself, health wise, all these other things that you want to do. But you want to look at your investing in real estate, or whatever else it is, and sort of target those things that are going to help you get the whole picture, right. You don't have to compromise. You know, and I think a lot of people neglect the network that they have, like, you know, I know I can count on you if I ever, you know, need some help with something. And I have several friends that are high level investor, friends that are always helping me out. You know, I work with Corey Peterson, he's a multifamily guys, my partner in business down and helping me with things and you want to find those people that are going to be catalysts for moving you forward. And there to support you when you're doing these these projects. You don't want to get sort of sidetracked into something that is going to take you down the wrong path in terms of you may be on a success path. In business, but in life, you're kind of losing. So I think as people are getting involved in real estate or getting their their involved in entrepreneurial ism, you want to kind of be careful about just just going headlong in or you know, charging forward into just winning, winning, winning, winning winning in business, you want to make sure that you encompass a life plan with everything you do. I think that's important. I was kind of hoping that's where we would kind of get to you and I talking is that you know, you've been through it. I I never really had a year much worse than you know, you. You You have this personality that is a hard charging personality, you know, and I'm kind of the same way, but I've learned to tamp it down, you know, my family keeps me in check. Yeah, I try to be a little bit stoic. I do follow the stoic philosophy a little bit. So I try to keep it in check. But I have the same thing. I want to get up and go and I'm always trying to win the race or win the fight, you know, and you're the same way but you really go for it all the time. And it's amazing what you do. So it's but it's funny that you've gotten to a place that I've gotten to as well in that we want to build a life for our family and for ourselves, you know, the money is kind of become I think that's what you get caught up in is how much money can I make. And what I've decided or figured out is that the money is just a score card, right? The Money doesn't really matter. It's about creating a life that you want. It's about building assets that pay me money, that without me working on it every day, you know, and things like that. So I look at I look at my business in my life a little bit differently now and I kind of wanted to get to that place with with your talking to you because you've been through that whole full cycle. And you're you went much further extremes than I did you went you know, built built these successful companies. So I know you're doing 20 as well. So I was hoping to get with tell people Hey, you can you don't have to go crazy. You can you can do it better way.
Tim Herriage 33:35
You know, I'm 42 now, which doesn't seem that old man I've done so much at this age. And multi families is one of those things that my wife and I have looked at several times and there have been several times that I was about to go all the way in right and just classic Tim harridge go get myself educated start looking for deals, start managing deals, I wasn't going to be a passive I was going to be the active and I would be the deal sponsor. And you know, I never did, I've been involved in some small, small multi families. And I've been a passive once and I'll tell you, if I was going to do something like that again. Now at this phase of my life, I am 195% certain I would not do it as an active that I would just do it as a passive with you or Mike or Brad or someone that I know and trust because that's really the goal. The goal is not to be a multifamily guru for me. The goal is to make my money make me more money and without me having to do more work. You know, it's I talk to friends All the time and I know you have this happen to with single family, everybody wants to get into single family, I want a house, oh, my wife loves to design the. And it's like, Oh, that's great. Here's the bill for the last sewer leak, you should pay that that's what it's like to be a single family investor. But I say that because, you know, for me, I'm really good at single family, I've been doing it for 20 years, I've got a team in place, I've got systems in place. And it truly is, I am in the quadrant. Now of I own the business, I work in the business, but I'm not all the way through investor there yet, because it still does rely around some of my decisions. And some of my involvement, like I told you, I was late to this call today, because I had to go to a closing. But that's okay, I can really manage that around my schedule. But if I were to get involved in multifamily, then the amount of time and energy it would take me to kind of ramp that up, it would take me away from everything that I just got through saying is important to me. So I think if I had a lot to do over again, instead of starting companies, like the real estate brokerage child, I would have just invested in someone else's company and helped them succeed vers, starting it on my own the same way. Now, if you bring a multifamily deal, you know, I've got some IRA money, give me a call, right and, and I can put that money with you invest with you help you succeed on that project, and I can get paid for it. And it won't take me away from a single day of drinking beer, cooking barbecue, you know, it just won't and, and so that's that's the mindset shift, right? Instead of doing everything on your own, you leverage your network and your time because what what I was, I was way too giving of my time before I get asked to do a podcast, at least every week. And I just typically say no, because I don't have anything to sell. I don't have anything to promote. I own a I own an insurance company. I guess I could talk about that. But you know, that company's doing that company's doing so well. And I have a partner that runs the business, and I just am an owner and I get money out of it. That I don't even think about it. I really don't I think about it. When I get my monthly report just like you should, when you like when your own something, you know, you shouldn't be involved in the business. So yeah, I mean, it was kind of funny you asked me so Hey, what are you? What are you trying to propose? I don't have anything to promote, which, you know, I ran that Rei masterminds last year and earlier this year, and when the corona came, I just suspended all the payments from it. And it was my intention to start it back in June. But I just did this alignment check, you know. And so one of the things that john Lee Dumas, have you listen to entrepreneurs on fire the podcast? No, I haven't. Oh my god, you gotta listen to entrepreneurs on fire john Lee Dumas. It is a great podcast for entrepreneurs. But I had I paid for this mentor thing with him and had a couple conference calls with him. And it was really worth money. But one of the things he said he said, Look at what you're doing. And, you know, come up with two, two categories, passion on one side and talent on the other. Right. And if you have a passion and write at one to 10 write one being no passion 10 being a lot of passion. And then same thing with the talent, one being talent and 10 being you know, one being no talent 10 being a lot of talent. So like for my single family investing business. Passion is probably a five, I don't care. I hate going to look at people's houses in the middle of the summer when they're blowing smoke in your face. I just hate it. Talent is a 10 I'm really, really good at it. But I don't enjoy it. So I don't spend a lot of time doing that. You take barbecue, for instance, my passion for barbecues attend, I just love it. My talent is probably a six, maybe a seven now, a year ago, it would have been a two or three. And John's point was entirely if you're passionate about something, you can always build your talent. But if you're talented at something, you can't really build your passion for it. And too many times people start a business that they're talented that but they don't have a passion and it becomes just a job that you hate.
Sean Thomson 39:47
You see that a lot of real estate. Everybody wants to be a real estate investor. Yeah, everyone wants to be a real estate investor until they actually get to do it. It's like this is horrible.
Tim Herriage 39:58
Right. So now I'm really aligned. And I do that. And so I did this with REI Masterminds. And I haven't really talked about this publicly until now, in May, I just did, I just did the the scale, I said, you know, what's my talent for this, and it's pretty low. I don't, I'm not really good at organizing a group of people and sticking to schedules and communicating the you know, and then I looked at my passion. And, you know, I have a passion for being around like minded people. But I do not have a passion for running a business like that. So I just after doing that exercise in June, I just, I was literally showing them I'm here I'm doing the landing pages and stuff, I'm getting ready to relaunch Rei masterminds. And I just said, Every month, it just doesn't fit doesn't fit with who I want to be and what I want to be. And you, you were part of it. And you know that I missed calls, and I would forget to communicate calls. And it's just because I don't have a passion for it. So I don't do that anymore. And that's just the latest chapter in Tim Herriage ventures that started looked really cool and are now out the window.
Sean Thomson 41:11
Yeah. Well, that's that drive you have. That's what I was saying before, you're just like, you're like on fire all the time to get something done, you know. So I think you're sort of, you're navigating your way through finding those things that are really important to you, like you said, you're you're measuring them on a passion, passion and talent scale now, so. But anyway, so that's, I think that's what people need to do when they first get started is just think about how they really want to approach their financial freedom, and how they go about it. And then using the people around them. Like, you know, the probably think a lot of the problem that people have is finding a guy like me, or finding a guy like you and getting to know us, you know, because we're we're not out I'm not this is as public as I get, you know, been doing this podcast. And you know, you know, me, you would easily invest with me and do business with me. And, you know, I know a ton of people that do I have private investors all over the place, and but finding me to get to do business with me, or finding you to get to do business with you is a little bit of a challenge for someone who's not in this space, you know, so. But anyway, yeah, I think that's a, you know, feat that people looked at, I'd like like we said a minute ago, everybody wants to be a real estate investor, but it is a super hard, very demanding business, it'd be much easier just to find someone like you or me and get to know them and invest with them. And live out your investor dream without having to go through all the other stuff, you know, but that's part of the challenge, I guess, you know, hopefully somebody will find one of us and and learn how to do that.
Tim Herriage 42:39
I get emails all the time, people like, Oh, my wife loves picking out colors. And we want to flip houses on like, look at now. Yeah, I mean, the picking out colors part that takes 10 minutes. Like, there's six months worth of work on that project, and you're saying you like 10 minutes of it? Like, who's gonna do the rest?
Sean Thomson 43:02
I don't even know what colors go into my houses, Mike, that my contractors handle that I have no idea what color the floor is going to be what color I just I'm just like, what's the budget? Yeah, we're done. What's the budget? When can you get it done? That's great. Okay, perfect. Let's move on. Yeah, right. So well, I we this is the name of the podcast that Tim has next level American dream. And we always ask everybody sort of what is your American dream. And you and I have talked pretty much exclusive, but our American Dreams, almost this whole podcast. So I don't know if you'll be able to be able to do sort of pin this down. But I like to ask what is your American dream? And then what are some of the things that you do every day or, or think are important that people could could utilize in their life, to take it to the next level. So if you don't mind, maybe just define for me what you think or what you live as the American dream. And then if there's maybe a couple things, or philosophies or books, or something that you think that can help people go to the next level.
Tim Herriage 43:56
I was active duty in the United States Marine Corps for five years. And I was fortunate and unfortunate enough to visit some of the worst places in the world and watch the worst of human behavior. And I know that every day that I wake up in this country is a blessing. And so my American Dream is really weird. It's that it sounds selfish, it's to have what I want when I want it. And by that, I mean, if if I want to cook by the pool today, I'm going to do it. And it doesn't matter if it's a Friday, a Monday a Sunday, I'm not going to have someone else tell me what I have to do when I have to do it. And that's my dream. You know, that's the dream. I'm living right now. It's I've made a lot of life decisions that put us in a financial situation where I could live here for probably three years if I never made another dollar and live the way I want to not just live here and in so My American Dream is enjoying the things that I have that I haven't I won't now, versus putting it off till tomorrow because you know, there's a Garth Brooks song right? If tomorrow never comes. And I watch a lot of people in corporate America in an entrepreneurial situations, they're always putting off today for hopes of a bigger tomorrow. And I just, I now refuse to do that I will not, I have passed on meetings with a billionaire, because they wanted me to drive to downtown Dallas, and I live an hour away, and I didn't want to make the drive. Whereas five years ago, I would have made that drive and I would have dressed up in my suit, and I would have really put on a good show. So I think, you know, my American dream, man, it's just simple. I want to spend time with my family and do what I want when I want to do it. And anything that gets in the way, specifically, business wise, just isn't worth it. Now, it's not a utopian dream. I mean, there are times that you have to put in some hard work, there are times you have to, we talked earlier about my project in San Antonio, it's not going well. And there are times you have to do the uncomfortable stuff, but 85 to 90% of the time, you've got to be in a position of power and control over your time, not of money and you keep I don't I'm not talking about money, and you said it earlier and I just I got to drive that point home as much as possible. It's not about money. It's about freedom and flexibility to do what you want when you want to do it, regardless of the day, month, year, or anything else. And you know, I I'm fortunate at the age of 42 to live that life right now. And I remain focused on making sure that living that life is my priority. Instead of working for some future that may or may not be here. So good books man, the richest man in Babylon by George Clawson. Number one on the reading list. It's just a great book about the power of money and making money work for you and handling your debts and your personal finances. That's a really just a simple concept is oldest time. millionaire real estate investor by Gary Keller is really really good book Eat That Frog is another book that I'm a big believer in because you will ruin your day putting off painful things. And so the whole point of Eat That Frog is if everyday you had to eat a frog, you should get up and eat the damn frog first thing in the morning. Because then it's out of the way. It's not hanging over your head. You're not worried about it. And I tell people all the time in sales and marketing and anything get the bad news out of the way and then then you can go on with positivity. Because I believe in the law of attraction Shawn and the law of attraction. You know, you've got to be focused on joy and happiness and joy and happiness will come to you but if you're focused on problems, more problems and sickness will come to you so Eat That Frog millionaire real estate investor Richest Man in Babylon. I do not recommend books a rich dad poor dad by Robert Kiyosaki. I do not recommend books that are going to motivate you to take on debt and fools errands and like one of the best worst books I've ever read was a book called traction by Gino Whitman. It's just full of theoretical advice that can lead you so far away from the entrepreneurial dream that I feel like it could be hazardous to your health. It was the mind in actually doing the what was in that book ended up destroying some partnerships that were really more friendships than partnerships. And I started looking at them as partnerships instead of friendships. And so, you know, I think, you know, Rich Dad, Poor Dad is another. That was the first book I've ever read on real estate investing. It was given to me by a Gunnery Sergeant when I got on the Marine Corps.
Sean Thomson 49:01
yeah, that's a that's a pivotal book for almost everybody that that book that book is I think I've talked about that book and every podcast I've done so far. That's the that's the one book that is the catalyst that changes everybody's decision making for becoming an entrepreneur, I think, you know, so especially in real estate, for sure that if you've read that book, you've probably gone into real estate on some form. It seems like.
Tim Herriage 49:25
Be careful of traps the traps are, I could look at multifamily investing and say, Oh man, I see how much money this guy Sean's gonna make using my money. I need to just do that myself. But be careful of those traps, because those traps you know, will distract you away from your vision and purpose in life. And you know, Simon Sinek wrote of Start With Why, that's a great book. Why? Why everything? Why am I doing this? Why do I want that? Why is that part of my life or my routine? And then you know, no matter where you are, I'm not saying that anyone listening This could immediately not everyone has the power or the ability or the resources to just hit stop on their life and start living another life. But I always recommend people start, you can start trickling in those long term desires today. But even if it's, if you're listening, and you want to spend more time with your kids, you know, if you have to be at work by eight, cool, put them to bed early tonight, and wake them up early tomorrow and make them breakfast or go to McDonald's, or, you know, go eat breakfast, and just start now, doing the things that you one day want to do that you're not doing. And you'll, you'll be amazed how liberating it is one, and two, you'll be amazed at how fast you can make that part of your daily life if you just start now because it'll become a priority. And those things that are a priority tend to get accomplished a lot more than things that, you know, are just a dream or a hope.
Sean Thomson 51:05
Right. Yeah, I say that all the time to my kid, you know, you want to get on the right path, start taking those those steps that are getting you towards that that destination, but you got to get on that path, you know, and, and take those actions today, even if you're not going to do that, you know, my transition to multifamily. I've been doing single family for a long time. And my transition into multifamily has been a two year process to where I'm just now getting up and running. But I started two years ago, you know, and trickling in, trickling in little parts of that investment asset. I'm not even that far away from I mean, it's really one asset class to another asset classes all I'm transitioning, it's not like I'm changing from being you know, a doctor to a lawyer, you know, it's not it's not a completely different industry, really. So. But yeah, so that's great advice, I think is, is start doing something today, reading those books, or taking some actions that are going to get you to the thing that you're trying to accomplish. Start doing that today. Whether it's learning, you know, reading, reading, watching podcasts, or getting involved with with something, start doing those things. Now, that'll get you to where you want to be down the road. And you'll like you said, eventually you'll see hey, I'm here at a place where I can get my business started or whatever. Well, Tim, I don't want to take any more your time. You've been with me a long time on the podcast here. So let me let me get you going back to the barbecue and the kids stuff. I'm taking up your lifetime your lifestyle time. I really appreciate it you know you we've known each other long time and we don't talk very much at all, but I think you're just one of my good friends you know, and I probably said that already but and I think what you're doing now is great. I think what you're doing before was great too. I've always thought you know the your approach to things is just a hard charge and it's it's pretty amazing to watch but so I think you don't get I wish you a bunch of luck with what you've got going on. And I really do appreciate you not saying no to me on being on my podcasts. That means a lot to me.
Tim Herriage 53:03
Well, man, if you're around Rock Wall, just shoot me a text and swing by you can hang out at the cabana and drink a beer with me.
Sean Thomson 53:09
I go through Rock Wall all the time. I'm headed headed Arkansas all the time I go I go right by your house probably once a month. Like Yeah, I appreciate it. Well, thanks a lot and have a good barbecue today and we'll see you soon hopefully!
Tim Herriage 53:24
Thanks, Sean. Have a good one.
Abigail Thomson 53:25
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level American Dream. If you would like to learn more about what we talked about today, want to contact a team directly or are interested in passively investing and being a part of our deal room, head over to our website at www.thomsonmultifamilygroup.com Before you go, please leave a review! Your comments help us create more episodes for you to enjoy.