Property Management Companies are Essential to Multifamily Real Estate

On this episode of Next Level American Dream, Abigail and Sean are joined by Kim Bruggeman. Kim is the Owner of Lighthouse Property Management and the host of the Girlfriends Guide to Multifamily Investing Podcast. Today, Kim touches on how a property management company assists multifamily groups and how that differs from asset management.

Key Topics

• ​What Property Management Companies bring to the table

• Asset Management Companies

Connect with Kim Bruggeman:

• https://www.lighthousemanagementsolutions.com/

• Follow along with episode's transcript:

  SUMMARY KEYWORDS

  people, property management, asset management, asset, property, asset manager, management, identifying, plan, executing, business, helping, create, unit, investors, support, vision, communicate, culture, residents

  SPEAKERS

  Sean Thomson, Abigail Thomson, Kim Bruggeman

  Abigail Thomson 00:01

  Welcome to the Next Level American Dream Podcast brought to you by Thomson Multifamily Group. Your hosts, Abigail and Sean, will discuss how you can take your American Dream to the next level through real estate investing, business practices, and personal development. Join us as we share our experiences as a father daughter duo who are trying to accomplish our goal of financial freedom. We hope you learn more about how to define and achieve your American Dream. Here's another episode of Next Level American Dream. Welcome to the Next Level American Dream Podcast. We have an incredible guest for you today, but first, please make sure you have subscribed if you have not already. We also love getting your feedback through likes, comments, ratings, and reviews. Today, Sean has a conversation with Kim Bruggeman. Kim is the owner of Lighthouse Property Management and the host of the Girlfriends Guide to Multifamily Investing Podcast. Today, Kim touches on how a property management company assists multifamily groups and how that differs from asset management. If you found any value from today's episode, then please share it with a friend and help us grow. For more information on our sponsor, visit: www.thomsonmultifamilygroup.com to start taking your American Dream to the next level through passive investing.

  Sean Thomson 01:18

  Hi, Kim, thanks for being on Next Level American Dream Podcast. How are you doing?

  Kim Bruggeman 01:21

  Awesome. Thanks for having me, Sean. Good to see you!

  Sean Thomson 01:24

  Good to see you too. So we just talked forever. Hopefully, we still have a little bit left to do your podcast. We haven't seen each other a long time too. So we were kind of catching up on a lot of things. If you don't mind, tell listeners a little bit about your background and where you ended up and what you guys have going on today.

  Kim Bruggeman 01:40

  Yeah, great. So as you know, I began my career in a hotel management firm, and a lot of my clients had multifamily and their portfolio and I started the multifamily division in that company and got to where I wanted to be in that company. And really just wanted to have a say, and the clients that I worked with, and as we just talked about, you know, my passion is really being personal and building those relationships with people and helping to align our joint purpose, vision and cultures together. And so I want to have a little bit more influence on the types of clients that I would choose to invest my time and talents with. So I went on to do asset management, and then you know, work for a lot of different private groups on individual asset management, and then just started to build the construction arm of our business and due diligence and property management as well to be able to support that vertically integrated structure of, you know, truly acquisition to disposition companies.

  Sean Thomson 02:40

  Yeah, so today, you have the full gamut, you have property management, which which includes construction management, and you also do asset management as well, I and your students, your company, you're building that out every day, of course, are you trying to expand? What is the purpose of you're doing speaking engagements and things? is it just an engagement with, with people and giving back? Are you trying to expand your business?

  Kim Bruggeman 03:03

  Both, I think I really want to, you know, I feel very driven from a woman's perspective to really lead and empower others. And, you know, being a woman, business owner and leader, I want to help, I think my passion is really educating people and empowering them and helping them to learn and grow and how to create better partnerships with people, you know, so I think in helping educate them on identifying the Best Types of partners together, so, yeah, I mean, I think from a podcast perspective, I think, I don't know, it's crazy, Shawn, I just feel like I'm, I'm kind of like, you know, I'm very faith based. So I think that God just kind of leading me towards that, I don't really know exactly where or why, yeah, I just, I feel like I have a lot appear in my head, that I'd like to share, you know, from an investing standpoint, you know, just like you, you know, people are just want to keep it real with people about, you know, kind of, like, where I say the good, bad and the ugly, I think sometimes people are afraid to share their their failures, right, and they're afraid to share the mistakes that they've made. And sometimes those are the best things that have helped us to grow and learn, you know, going through those hard, you know, valleys and coming out and seeing, you know, the other side of that, and I want to be able to talk about that I want to talk about leadership, you know, keeping your culture and your values, you're helping people to define their purpose, their vision, their culture, because, you know, a lot of times they go to these speed dating gurus, right, and then they they're taught to like, hey, meet this person with this money, this person with a deal, and then you know, you're not culturally aligned at all, you know, you're not and you're in this together, right? I mean, if you and I, by deal together, I want to make sure that we know how to communicate, we know how to, you know, just like a marriage, you go through your, you know, in good times and bad times. And COVID was a perfect example of that, right? And so, I really want to help people to see you know, aligning themselves with the right partners that are going to be sustainable, you know, to make the asset their businesses grow together, you know, and then I want to, you know, I think from an investment standpoint, also from a management standpoint, all in from due diligence management to acquisitions, and, you know, property management, construction management, a lot of that side of it, and then it's just stuff like, you know, where you're talking to, you know, people that are in that, you know, trying to, you know, from a woman's perspective, or, and, and it will be an all difference, not just women, but, you know, just trying to see how, you know, we navigate those journeys together, and just, I think it opens the door for me to kind of go into some other things that are there, and then I would love to do speaking engagements to, you know, kind of, again, you know, grow others and, and I think it will eventually all lead to our business, you know, side of it as well, you know, as you know, you know, we're real careful about who we work with, you know, and, and the wise and because we've made a lot of, you know, bad choices through all of our careers, right, and then we're like, oh, so it's about I want to help people to do that from the beginning.

  Sean Thomson 05:59

  It's a struggle to do that.

  Kim Bruggeman 06:01

  Oh, it completely is! It's very hard.

  Sean Thomson 06:03

  Yeah, it's, you know, and just having that synergy, the partnership is really, it's really critical in this business, especially.

  Kim Bruggeman 06:11

  You know, and it's so much about, you know, and I just spoke about this at a conference, and it was about, you know, because so many times people get me on, you know, a podcast or, or, you know, a speaking engagement, and they're like, hey, can talk about property management and asset management first, right. And I'm like, okay, but that is really important. But let's let me you know, divert, take a little detour from that, you know, road for just a second. Because exactly like, what, what we're talking about is that I think so many times that, you know, people begin and they begin this journey, like you wouldn't, you know, our culture doesn't just marry somebody sight unseen, right? You want to date them, and you want to create, you know, what is Shawn like, and what is Kim like? And, you know, what is it that, you know, like, my core values are integrity and, and balance and, you know, respect and, you know, learning and growth, and that's how you're growing and growing, and how we're doing things and making our decisions with integrity. And that's in our employees and our people and who we, you know, uses our sponsors, and, you know, Equity Partners, right. And so, I think it's, it's really about teaching people to kind of go back to that beginning part, and say, you know, what is our purpose? What is our why, what do we want to do here, you know, and then, you know, aligning that with your vision, you know, beginning with that end in mind, and I think if you've seen my email, you see where I put, you know, when your vision is clear, your options are fewer, and your decisions become easier. And it's, I use that, quote, so many in so many my, you know, hard questions in my life, it's like, what is that vision for me? Because, you know, if you're like, hey, I want to go buy storage units, I'm like, well, Shawn, that's not in our vision, you know, and so it helps us to make better decisions, right, or the types of people we're going to work with, and then, you know, defining our culture, and it's about people who are going to grow each other and like minded in like, seasons, you know, because I think that it's also going back and finding that partner that is going to help you grow from that beginning, because that's one of the things that I you know, people say to me all the time, you know, do you manage only 100 units plus, or do you only asset, manage large portfolios, and actually, it's quite different, I love to come in on that beginning. So I kind of like with you and I, where you're going and you're like, hey, let's just talk about this, you know, let's, let's rap about what you're looking at, and why you're looking at it, let's help to, you know, give you some pointers on the geographical areas that you're looking at, you know, and then the partnerships are, these are the things that I think those are, those are the basics, you know, because remember, I, as an asset manager have come in on the broken side, you know, pretty much my whole career, you know, as a receiver company, we've come in and, you know, servicers and lenders will hire us to come in and create, you know, assess a property and create, uh, you know, reposition, stabilization or disposition plans. And, you know, I always say, I sat around this table for so long with people that are owners and lenders and investors and employees, residents, third party management companies, and, you know, I've listened to great stories of success, but I've also listened to many of them of failure and loss, you know, and frustration, and I, and I would always send everybody's always pointing a finger to the other one, you know, saying it's this person or it's this and I just remember distinctly, I can specifically remember the day that I thought, you know, how can we stopped this chaos, this insanity? You know, what can I do to be part of that change and something different, and, for me, it was really helping people to go back to that beginning side, you know, because when I would look at why it broke, it was in, you know, poor partnerships that they just didn't agree and weren't aligned or one person was really strong and the other one was so passive. They could, you know, they just frustrated and then you have, you know, poor funding, you know, you have people that didn't create good management plans or good capex plans or then you have the plans with no funding to support it right. And so, you know, and then you have the wrong team to implement it, you know, or not to communicate, I think one of the other biggest things that I see, Shawn is that people, they're afraid to communicate with their sponsor or their investors when something happens, you know, and then they start to shoulder that, and instead of just being real about what happened, and what we can do together to, you know, collectively, journey through whatever it might be, you know, in code was a, just a huge example of really seeing a lot of that and having trusted partners that you know, that go, okay, knowing your assets, knowing how to how you can immediately pivot Where do your people work, you know, what is their income, and, you know, so then you kind of start to identify your resources, outside of that, to help those people before you know, it becomes an issue and going back and saying to your investors, I need a capital call, because something is has happened. And a lot of operators won't do that, because I think it's, you know, something that they'll get shamed for not seeing on a due diligence, right, and then it just starts to go. So I think those are a lot of things that I see from that side that I'd like to begin in that basic ground with people and help empower them to create, I think this, if I had to, say, the strong foundation of you know, their purpose, or values in their culture align with their business model, you know, and so and then you start adding in your team, right? And then your, who your property management company is going to be who, your asset manager, if you're going to use one, or who's going to be that in your group, and helping them to really see all the intricate sides of that, you know, and so I think that that's something that I'm very passionate about, you know, helping others to grow collectively.

  Sean Thomson 11:43

  Well, we had a, we had a big setback just recently, and the first thing I did was go back to the beginning and say, you know, I've clearly lost my vision, in my mind, and I started to, you know, I started looking at Okay, am I am I on my path? Does that why does that, why straight off this? You know, what, and then I started looking at our processes again, you know, so it's, for me, that's sort of a natural instinct is when I have a big failure, is to go back and say, okay, where did I, where did I, where's the broken, you know, path here that I, that led me to this, this thing. So as long as my, as long as my vision is still strong, and my execution is still strong, my processes are still strong, then it's just, you know, it's just one of those things that happens in it. But I my immediate, my immediate reaction is to go back and say, let's make sure we're still in line, right, let's make sure we're still on the right path. So I'm tuned in to what you're saying very, very deeply, I think and that you want to you want to make sure you're, you're staying true to what your your objectives are from the beginning.

  Kim Bruggeman 12:46

  100%. Because I think, you know, in my career, it can happen, you know, I began my career in hotel management firm. And, as I mentioned, a lot of my clients were multi had multifamily in their portfolio. So I helped to start that division within that company, but then I became very clear that my vision was to focus on multifamily, you know, and then, you know, got into asset management, and then went on to, you know, obviously, start lighthouse and do the, you know, consulting, property management, due diligence, all the things to help people along the way, we scaled back to not just third party for just everyone, because I really, you know, wanted to make sure that people were receptive to hearing those things, right. Because I could say all day long, you know, this is what you should do or help to encourage them. But if, you know, if they're very eye focused, instead of team focused, you know, that's not somebody that we want to align ourselves with, right? Because just like you said, you, you had to kind of step back from it. And I think that's what every day we do, you know, I mean, as long as I've been in this business, I'm continuously learning, you know, I love to listen and hear other people's stories. And I think that's one of the greatest things I'm looking forward to in kind of going out there. And podcast is just hearing those things that people write and seeing, like that good, the bad and the ugly, right and saying, but I think those scars, sometimes we're very afraid to show them, right, because we think, oh, it just makes us look weak. But I think it makes us look more like a warrior, how we were able to, you know, battle through that. But also to learn through that, like you just said, you go back to that basic, you know, vision and say, Okay, what, where did I go, you know, with somebody trying to leave me here, because people tell me all the time, you should go into assisted living home cam, you could go into this, you know, and it's easy, right? And so all of a sudden, you're like, Ah, you know, and but then you just have to kind of refocus yourself to say, because one of my core values is balance, right? And so I feel like if I'm stretched to that, and I'm diverting to that, and sometimes it's it's really hard, you know, and taking on for me, a lot of third party management, you know, is fantastic, right for immediate revenue, but if it's taking my time, away from the conversations you and I can have or building that long term side of it, you know, or My focus and and I've done it at times, you know, and and what it does is it derails me from my time management, you know, and I think it's, it's about writing that down, you know, and I use this notecard analogy that, you know, it's kind of like dating, right? And you, you write the things that you like, and the things that you are, make you tick, and then you write the things on the back that you don't that are absolute nose. And it's kind of like you and looking at deals, right? You're like, Okay, this is a hard No, or this is a yes. And then you're, and sometimes you, you know, it's, it's so easy, because it can get so frustrating. And then you get to these deals, and you've been there, you know, you get to that point, and then all of a sudden, it's like, a hard, no. And then you're like, Wait, am I supposed to be here doing that. And it doesn't mean that, you know, God doesn't promise us that when we go through these, you know, these valleys that they're not still part of the path, right? And the plan, it's, it's during those times, I felt personally that it's grown me the most. And I've seen a lot of partners and people that that do. And then when you finally get that victory, you're like, Oh, look at this!

  Sean Thomson 16:04

  Yeah, so you know, I'm I am, I'm honest to a fault. You said a moment ago, but I don't mind telling anybody, anything. You know, I don't I don't mind talking about my failures, or my mistakes, or whatever it is, but then I've had people actually use it against me later on. Because, you know, because I made that mistake today doesn't mean I'm going to do I'm going to continue to make that mistake, right. So I've had people say, Well, you, you're not very good at that. And I'm like, I wasn't, then I am now I learned my lesson. You know. So it's like, that doesn't just because I failed today, doesn't mean that I'm gonna keep failing on that same issue. I'm going to learn from it, I'm going to fix the problems, I'm going to move. I'm going to improve, I'm going to move forward. Right. So you know, because of my honesty, sometimes I sometimes I find myself not sharing, but like you said, it's good to share those things, I think with people, because a lot of people shelter that and they don't want to talk about it. I'm kind of the opposite. And like, you know, so the other thing is, I don't want people to think I'm complaining because I'm never, you know, I don't mind telling the truth. But sometimes it sounds like Well, look, what was me I had this big problem. And for me, that's never the issue. It's just this is just what happened. And I messed it up, but I'm gonna keep going.

  Kim Bruggeman 17:14

  I love that. I mean, I totally agree with that. I think that, you know, I think it's about having that trusted network also, right, and having those people that you can have those vulnerable conversations with, right? And, and I want to be that person I want you know, and trust me, I'm, I'm right with you. Because I think, you know, I've we've met personally several times, and I, you know, and I know you and your, your daughter and in the passion, that compassion that you guys have as well. And, you know, it's one of the hardest things for me, because everything that I do from a business standpoint, you know, I'm all in you know, I'm, it's just who I am as a person, I'm, I always say as, as passionately, as I love is sometimes as passionate as I can, you know, get upset about something, but it's because I go all in with that. And, and I think that from a leadership perspective, at first, it was hard because, you know, I put myself out there, right? And then when employees, who is the first person they want to attack about something, it's me, right, you know, and, and it's hard, and you have to learn, but I never, I think the business tried to change me in that perspective, you know, at times, and then and then it's, it's funny, because I'll share a personal experience. One of my brothers, Pete was talking about business to me one day, and we're really having a heart to heart about it. And he's like, you know, Kim, you know, I just don't think you're, you're good at this, or it was just a subject we were talking about, right? He's like, basically, I talked too much, or I think too much right over analyze too much. And, and I, I was in tears by the end of it, and I felt so defeated. You know, and then I was really upset about part of it was a conversation related to, you know, some other things and, and I'll tell you, I went to bed that night, and I was thinking about it didn't sleep at all woke up the next morning, I thought, first of all, I get paid a lot of money to speak too much. And I said, and I love doing that, you know, it's like growing up, you know, they would always say, you know, Kim is talks too much, and Kim does this, but that I turn those to my strengths, you know, and then I am, like you I'm honest about that. And I'm real and the people that I may lose people in my world because of those things, you know, but I will gain the right ones, because those are the people I want to be surrounded by the people that we can have those real conversations with. Right. And so and I think also, you know, when he said those things, to me, I thought these are all good things in a way that I use them in the right way in a business, right. And so, there are people that are going to judge you and I both for those different things right or are failures and I, you know, decided I can't stand on the street corner and proclaim who I am to everyone and all you can do is just be consistent, you know, and, and, you know, every day I pray that you know, God's light shine in and through me, you know, which is part of the meaning of lighthouse and that all that I do and say you No points others to a better direction, you know, and so I think that that's empowering and helping others is what it's about, you know, you're gonna go through this journey, you're gonna have a lot of blood, sweat and tears, you know, and I know, I know, you've been through all of them, you know, and it's, you want people, they're gonna champion you and not be pointing that out. And, and it was, it was funny because I, I really realized that I had to take that moment in somebody that was a very influential person and still is in my life, right? And I thought, How do I not let that defeat me, but actually encouraged me to grow and be better and different, you know, and so, I think that's an in business. And I use that, you know, even from asset management to property management, you know, it's about, you know, training the right people and hiring the right people, right, that are going to be that way and want to, to lead your property in that same in your asset, you know, same with your investors, you know, and I think it's so hard when you're going out there, and you're buying properties, because you're trying to bring in a sponsor, or you're trying to bring in, you know, your Equity Partners, and and then you're like, Whoa, these are people I have to communicate with, and I have to like, and then sometimes you don't, and then it makes it very, you know, expectations are different. But I think having that core, I almost say it's like you want to have like this beginning retreat weekend weekend, right? Where you're just, you go and you're together, and you're really brainstorming and you're learning and you're you know, you're creating your vision, and then you're building that team, and then you're going forward, because otherwise you're trying to make it work. And it's hard you feel on different pages sometimes from people that makes sense.

  Sean Thomson 21:35

  Yeah. And it's funny that you say that we have, you know, we're taking on new investors now. So I'm just getting to know a lot of new people and, and all those sorts of things, but I have an established group of investors that have worked with me in the past. And they just love me, you know, and it's, it's, it's because because we've sort of developed this relationship. And it makes it easier for me to want to do my best for them. So you know, when I'm when I do a deal, I'm always thinking about, how is it going to impact them? You know? And is this the right decision? I may take a risk that I wouldn't take for them. Right? So I may not do something because they're involved. I'm going through that right now. You know, I'm having a, I'm having a way a decision. And for me, it's, I'm not scared at all. But is it? Is it a good idea to put them in this position? Right? So that's a different question. And you want to have people that believe in me that I'm going to be that I'm going to be doing that for them. Right? So it's, it's, it's really kind of this, like you said, it's this synergy in the relationship, because they're so confident me, I want to do a better job for them all the time. Right. So just having that, that and if someone doesn't believe in you, it's hard to it's hard to really kind of have that same mentality, right. So if they don't believe in you, then it's really just, it's not a great mesh. Anyway. So it's kind of funny how that works. The people that the people that really kind of believe in me and want to do invest with us and do business with me are the ones that I'm really the most concerned with making sure that we're doing a good job for. Ultimately, that becomes everybody, but it's fun to have those people on your in your corner that say, I like that guy, he's doing great stuff, you know, I believe in him. And what he's doing is something I want to be part of, you know, you have those people in your life It makes it just elevates what you're able to do for yourself. Yeah, not everybody's gonna feel that way about you. I there's a lot of people that are just think I'm an idiot, I'm sure and don't want to talk to me. But you know, those people are not part of our program are not part of our inner circle, which is fine, you know, they have their place with someone else. But I, you know, I can see what you're saying you have and there's someone that's that's close to you has that criticism of you, it hurts even more.

  Kim Bruggeman 23:44

  it does, because I think it's our human nature to feel defensive right at times, and you want to be I mean, there are definitely those people who don't care about what other people think. I don't think I definitely know that you and I are not those people. And so, and and i think exactly in the seat that you're in and the seat that I'm in, you know, it's people are looking to you for that guidance, right? They're looking to you, they're trusting in you, you know, and if they're questioning you at every turn, right, and they're saying, what about this, then then it's not the right fit? Because there's you have to know that, you know, for your investors, they're trusting you as their partner to source their deals that you've done, your, your due diligence and exactly what we're talking about vetting your partner's vetting your team, you know, and so, and you're choosing, you know, who is it that best represents, you know, our culture and our vision, you know, because it's not about and I think that's where I'm probably very different on the mindset where people say we need to have a local management company, you know, in every place because if you and I are going to buy properties in Texas and Florida, you know, Oklahoma and Wisconsin, right and then all of a sudden we're having multiple management companies that there are, you know, situations where the property, we will is an outside group, right? But you again, you want to make sure you've vetted them and your culture and who they are in the way that their people are. And then you're going to also want to look at, you know, for me, I look at it that it's about, hey, doing this right from the beginning on that pre acquisition, you know, just like when Eddie goes out and looks at a property, he's looking at it to say, because your people, your investors, right, are trusting in you to say, you know, Shawn, we believe that you're going to choose somebody, yourself and your team and you guys are very diligent right? Now I see it, you know, very actively, that you're, you're literally and figuratively pounding that pavement to get out there and really look at them yourself, right, and then in training up your family, you're committed to this, and they see that, you know, and I think that it's about also having somebody goes out there and looks at that, you know, from day one, but you know, at LSI, and, you know, making sure that you're going to not just throw money in a different market, because, you know, some guru told you to do that, right? You're actually, you know, understanding that, and you're, you've already, as we've talked about, defined your purpose, vision and culture, and you've started to scale your team. So then that way, you're building that credibility with your people, you know, and then you're showing them that, you know, this is the deal and why and then you're going into acquisition and operations and disposition and then repeat right, you know, so I think that it's exactly that having those people that believe in you, and because you'll you'll make mistakes I do all the time, right? I forget something or you'll forget something or will be like, oh, but I think what they'll what will shine the most in you is that you're you get back up and you figure it out, and you come up with solutions instead of, you know, the complainer, like you said.

  Sean Thomson 26:46

  Right. Yeah. And it's hard. It's everything's against you most days, just, you know, so any kind of support you can get from people is excellent. And then having a good team and good purpose, like you said, is critical. So yeah, I'm always looking for some advantage, but there is no advantage, it's just you got to get out there and grind it out.

  Kim Bruggeman 27:03

  And knowing when to pivot, you know? I think it's okay that you have chosen somebody, you know, and you're like, Okay, I need to do this, or I'm gonna look in this market or, and as long as you're sorry, you know, I would always consider myself not a risk taker, I'll take a risk as long as I can manage the risk, right, and I can identify it. And so I think that's your, the biggest thing that you need to be able to do is being able to identify all these things, like you said, take that risk, but manage that risk for your investors and your partners.

  Sean Thomson 27:30

  Let's talk about a little bit about property management, a little bit about asset management. I think a lot of people don't really understand, especially new syndicators, they don't understand the difference between the two, they may not understand what the two functions of each component are. So let's start with maybe like property management? What is it that the property management companies should be doing for somebody?

  Kim Bruggeman 27:52

  Okay, so the best way, Sean, that I can summarize it is, you know, the difference between asset management and property management is I kind of use the illusion of a bridge, right? So it's the bridge between the owners and the investors and the lenders to the operational team here. And so the best distinction of you know, when an asset manager does is she's on this side of the or he is on this side of the bridge, that is, you know, helping to identify the deals, and we'll go into a little bit more, because your question was about property management, but you know, the asset managers here and on the other side is the property management arm, you know, so I think that your property management team is definitely the group that focuses on the true daily operations of the asset, they are the one that is supposed to take the vision and plans of your construction plans, your operational plans, and your management plans, your financial model, and actually infusing that into your asset on the day to day they're handling your, your payables, they're collecting the money, you know, on the property, they're hiring and firing and training and leading your property staff. And then they're also creating your property culture as well. And again, that begins really on the asset management side, the ownership side of identifying that, and they're taking what that is, and they're there that boots on the ground, and, and they're the people that are empowering your staff, you know, they're training them, they're identifying their strengths and weaknesses of the team there. I think that's a huge component of your asset management group is to make sure that they have the right leadership that's going to hire the right people, you know, what I would ask, you know, what are their training? What is their hiring protocol, you know, we use predictive index in our group, which is, you know, identifying first what the role is responsible for and what, you know, that looks like so that when somebody takes a test, you're seeing, you know, you're trying to you're not trying to put a square peg in a round hole, you know, you're, you're hiring the right position, a right person for that position, whether it's a dual position of property and leasing. You or property manager and leasing or if it's just the property manager with a separate leasing person or an assistant. And so, and that's about, you know, continuously feeding and growing that person so that they're, they're the ones supporting your multimillion dollar asset right there. So I think that that's huge. I think that there are also, communication is huge, you know, you want to find somebody who's a good communicator, what types of reports are they using to communicate to your team, you know, not just your standard, you know, they're going to use your same monthly financial packet or your Monday morning report. But, you know, asking that hard question about, like, who reviews that, you know, I don't want just somebody spitting out something from, you know, your property management system, and, and sending it over, right? Every Monday, like on auto click, I want to make sure that somebody is read it, and they have digested it, they're communicating that, you know, how are they supporting? You know, I believe, you know, in in our structure, you know, we have what I call a war report, which is a weekly activity report, that our managers, it's, they all definitely don't love me for this report. But it's very, you know, it's very detail oriented, because but what it does is it I tell our managers all the time, I'm like it, this will make you a better manager, if you will work this report, because it's kind of like a dashboard of all different areas of I think, you know, you've seen it before, and it's something that shows that that first page is all your highlights of what's happening, but it's also supported by the tabs of what were the work orders, how did they respond to it, did they do a follow up call for that? Did they, you know, communicate with your residents. And then it also talks about your financial, you know, things things that would be your variances to your budget, you know, so we had a leak in building, you know, the seven, and this was the cause the problem cos solution and status, right? So, and what we do is, it's my way of making sure that my team is communicating up to us, and also that my corporate side is communicating back down to our property side, so that, you know, you as an owner, or an investor go out to a property, you're not like, Hey, you know, this person's out on an island, Kim, and, you know, nobody knows what's going on. And that, that report should be able to give you all of that, and it accumulates for the entire month. So it actually ends up turning into our month end owners report part, you know, part of that, which gives us really, the data to support your financials as well. So, you know, we go a little bit above and beyond, and I think your management company, I would encourage anybody to have them do that, you know, so that, it helps your your managers to take what's in the property management system, and process it and, you know, respond to it, you know, so they're actually detailing it versus just giving you numbers, that's, you know, something that I am very passionate about, is really that communication part from a property management side up, you know, you're they're also going to handle all your work orders, you know, ordering your supplies, I would also make sure that you're checking with your property manager on our company about what is their return policy, you know, what is their turn time? How are they handling that, you know, I think one of the deceptive things that you can see is that a property can stay 95% occupied, right? And then, but you're not really looking at what is the length of time that a unit is done, because they may be pre leasing out, you know, for, you know, two months on some properties that I've audited, and they're losing $8,000 a month in cash flow, just because, but you're seeing the occupancy stay the same, because they're filling it in. So, you know, really looking at that, you know, at that 90 day mark, on renewal, are they identifying that notice to vacate and knowing what those units look like inside to be able to order the materials and schedule the vendor so that, you know, I can't tell you how many management companies I've come into where I'm like, hey, what is your turn process? Well, when the person's moving out, we do an inspection and then, you know, we order the stuff? Well, as you and I know, ordering materials right now is insane, right? You know, so you want to make sure that you've got all of that in, you've got your vendors scheduled and, and your turn time is is really short, so that you can flip that unit, you know, and, and help with your income. But I think that's huge. And really going back to those basic plans in the beginning for your property management side.

  Sean Thomson 34:20

  I'm gonna try and summarize you gave a lot of great examples there. I'm gonna try and summarize just kind of the path. The Property Management Group is the one that's between the ownership group and the onsite management team. And they manage the interaction with the management on site team to effectively run that property and to effectively execute a business plan that the ownership is put together, along with their property management group. And then like you said, I think an important component that you mentioned early on was culture. You know, one of the things that I have a big it's a big deal for me is that you're executing the right culture on on with your team, right? You want your communities to have a certain feel to them. You want your you want your residents to have to feel Welcome and open and you know, enjoy living in your properties. And if your property management on site team is just grumpy all the time, and they're not operating within a good culture, and like you said, you use predictive index to kind of find those right people for the job. And then you sort of work on their culture experience with the residents, I think that's critical. But anyway, so it's the Property Management Group is the one that's really kind of helping the ownership group convey downstream to their on site team, all those little small things, and executing that business plan. And I like that term idea, too. So the effective property management team will get in there ahead of time, as soon as someone says, we're moving on 30 days, you can get in there and take a look at the property, see what it needs, make a list and then execute an order for those products. And then when someone moves out, it takes a few days instead of weeks to kind of get that property turned, or that that unit turned around. I think that's a very good, efficient efficiency thing.

  Kim Bruggeman 35:53

  Yeah, we actually do on our unit status report, I believe in knowing at all times the condition of all your units, you know, when obviously, that starts that day one in your on your due diligence, right? When you've done that 100% unit inspection, you've come up with, you know, what are the values in your units? And what is it you know, what are the living conditions in there? What are we going to do in there, so that creates your, your model, right? And then, then when you're doing those quarterly inspections, you're looking for risk and liability issues, you know, you're identifying what will need to be done on that asset into that unit when it turns and so you already know, and we put a kind of preliminary budget to that unit. So then you know, you're in, you're matching that to what your what the owners investment model is. So just like we talked about before, you know, is, are we going to renovate that unit, right? So are we going to non renew that we already know that before that 90 days, if we're going to non rented, I mean non renew that resident, so that we can renovate that unit, or we can turn that into a standard turn and offer it and but you already have what that value is going to be. And I think that that is very critical to see that you already identify what supplies you're needing and what your business plan is, before you get to that, you know, different leases have a 90 6030 day, you know, notice to vacate clause in their lease, and most all of our leases are 90 days. So we try to get that 90 day already know that condition, and then order that and make sure that you're getting that those supplies in and those those vendors scheduled.

  Sean Thomson 37:24

  You know, if you walk in the carpet speed up, it's not going to get better in the next. No, it's pretty, it's a pretty easy call. Right? Yeah, let's talk about that's wonderful explanation of property management, let's talk about I think asset management. So it's it's very important, but it's a little bit smaller, more compact, a job description, I think. So let's talk about now asset management, how that is a role that, that plays and ownership and stuff.

  Kim Bruggeman 37:49

  Absolutely, Sean, when I go back to that analogy of the bridge, right, you know, so the asset manager is part of that owner, investor lender side, right, they are the person that just like you said, is going to take the pre identified already passion, I mean, the purpose, the vision and the culture of that investment right there, they've helped to help the ownership side already to solidify their, their their business plan, if you will, right, you know, you in our structure, you know, my partner, Eddie, he is on the construction side, but he also helps in the budget, right, what is created our pro forma, you know, when you're putting all those numbers into your, your cash flow calculator, right, and you're trying to you're underwriting, you know, we help to support or an asset management group would help to support if that can be just not numbers plugged into a spreadsheet, right? So how we actually get there, and then you're taking those things, and you're, you're taking the business model, the financial model, and you're taking the the culture of your team, and then you're crossing that bridge to your operational side, you know, and you're, you're basically showing them what your management plan looks like, this is our, you know, I because I come from, you know, the broken side. So often, you know, I've seen that nobody's crossed that bridge to to an operational team, right, they've just kind of said, here's my, my business model, make it work, and then they don't have the funding to support it. And they don't have the vision, they don't really have a plan of when they were going to execute the timing of operations, like we talked about on other properties before where, you know, how are we going to reposition this asset and how we marrying that to the financial, you know, model coming in, you know, when are we raising money, are we going to hold it for a year so that we don't pay interest on it? You know, we're really marrying it to that operational side. So, you know, your asset management partner or component partner is going to the best way I can say this is be that pre acquisition through operations and disposition, you know, and they're really going to call the bridge of communication, you know, they're going to help the ownership side to create the plan, then they're going to help to manage that plan. over your operational side, your property management team, and then they're going to handle communication back and forth. And what I believe is most important is they're going to support the plan, you know, they're going to support that when there's challenges just like with COVID. Last year, nobody could have ever predicted in their original underwriting what COVID was going to bring to our world, right. And so I believe on, you know, I personally, you know, do a lot of out of the box reports that helped me to prevent, and I can, I can say, successfully, we came through last year, and we're able to really pivot in ways that others weren't, you know, from creating forbearances with lenders on different things and knowing how to really be involved in our community to get resources for the residents that were losing their jobs, and, you know, we do a lease on it, that's updated, every move in and move out. So at any point, from an asset management position, you know, you and I could look at, and I can say, Hey, this is where 50% of our residents work, and everything was shut down for months. So we know, this is going to immediately impact you know, our group. And so I think it's really knowing your, your investment, and then also knowing your who is operating that investment, and being that bridge back and forth to say, and when the operational team says, Hey, you know, we need this money, we need funding, or this is going to hurt that plan, and knowing where we have to kind of divert some of our focus sometimes, and then crossing back over that bridge to say, you know, owners and investors that may be active or passive, this is what we need to support that, you know, so I think that's huge. And, and one of the biggest things that I feel your asset management group is in partner is, is looking at what I call your risk and liability issues, you know, so many owners, Shawn, that I've seen, jump right into product improvement, right, you know, they're so excited, they've, you know, they're purchasing this asset, and they just want to jump in and, you know, renovate all these units. Right? And, and then, you know, I'm always like, Okay, well, we have to back it up first, in the order of, you know, risk and liability, what are the things that are going to make you lose your money, and this is in both product and in your people, your residents and your employees? Right? So what are the things you're identifying your, your risk and liabilities issues on your property? What is somebody going to hurt themselves on that it's going to sue us and lose money? What are our risks in our employees, you know, what is their training that they need? So if they're, like, we talked about predictive index, right, maybe they're real detail oriented, but it's a, it's a one person property. So it's a smaller unit property, but they need to be leasing. And detail oriented, well, it's hard to find people that are all those things, right. So how we're going to train them on their weaknesses, so that that doesn't become a risk, you know, looking at your risk and liabilities and your residents and identifying who are the bad people, we need to get out immediately, right, and then how we're creating that reposition plan. And, and that's an any class of an asset, right, and then looking at preventative maintenance, things that are going to make you a save your money. So again, looking at things that we can help prevent early on the product, you know, that doing these inspections, right, it's going to help us to prevent downtime from return, it's also going to go in there when notoriously people won't complain about something being an issue until they can't pay their rent, then all of a sudden, you know, it's it's a big issue. And I can't tell you how many apartments we've gone into. And we've seen where, you know, somebody left the window open, and the rain is just coming all the way down the whole sheetrock. And it's down to the floor. And I'm so thankful that we were able to get in there and preventatively handle that before it became you know, a bigger issue. The third is then product improvement, which is things that are going to help you make money, right, what are we going to do to the units? Are we going to renovate them? Are we gonna do standard turn and add these things and juggling that product improvement internally with all the stuff you're doing externally at the same time. So that, you know, we're not putting all that money into the interior of our of our product and not looking at the risk and liability of those cameras that we needed to add? Right. So then, you know, making sure that, you know, one of the biggest things that I'm a huge advocate for is, you know, somebody out there doing this landscaping plan, right, and they're gonna say, Okay, well, that's, you know, that's a couple months down the road, I'm like, Well, at least give me some flower pots in the front, you know, like, make my marketing path here so that we can, you know, it's really having that plan that kind of implements that. And then your, your final part to that, that I think is from the asset management to the property management is identifying your resident retention, you know, and that's your employee and resident retention, and that's what are we doing in our community to build our communities on purpose, right, what are we doing to create renewals and you know, positive feedback in our community and growth and in positive reviews in our community. And so I know you and I share a lot on the same as far as our purposeful backgrounds on you know, our You know, very much with yours and investing with purpose, managing with purpose and, you know, building better communities on purpose. And I think you know, so I think that that is really key. So I, you know, I, I encourage any of your listeners and anybody that I'm ever a part of to really look at those, again, it's the risk of liability, preventative maintenance, product improvement, and then retention, that's employees and residents. And on both sides of that bridge.

  Sean Thomson 45:26

  So the asset, the property management is really managing the operational side, the asset management is more looking at the efficiencies of the financials, and all those obligations to like you said, the bank, the lender, whatever, and the investors and the partnership group. And so they're more they're more concerned with the efficiency of the financials, whereas the Property Management Group is more concerned with the efficiencies of the property and its operations every day, is do I get that? Right?

  Kim Bruggeman 45:52

  Yeah, you're your asset manager, their, their key goal is to optimize the asset, optimize the investment in totality, that's in people product and processes in everything, right?

  Sean Thomson 46:04

  yeah, they're not executing the operational side, they're executing the financial side, mostly making sure that the efficiencies are there to support and then they're working with property management, investors bank ownership, to make sure that the property manager is execute executing properly, and that all the other components have the reports that they need documents that they need all those kinds of things as well, right?

  Kim Bruggeman 46:26

  Yes. And they're going to make sure they're almost like a safety, net of compliance and all of those things for you. You can have a management company, if they're, they're focusing on, you know, the operations, and they're, like you said, they're the ones executing your plan, you know, and they are, and you know, and I always say to people, I can't stress enough, your property management company is not the ones creating, if they're creating your plan, you're already behind the eight ball, right? Because it should have already been done in your investment plan, right? How, how are? How are we going to take Sean are our underwriting and make that work? Well, we should have already decided that, right? You bought the property, right? You know, so then that way, we're handing that to the executer, to say here, and then you're holding them, you're managing that plan, you know, I always say in our reports that we send out, it's like, define the plan and manage the plan, you know, and so it's the management company, you know, they need to be accountable for the execution and the communication of those things. But you need to have somebody who is, you know, going on site or looking virtually, or, you know, having a more forensic view at something that could potentially, you know, as an asset manager, I personally, you know, kind of combine, like I said, My financials to really see where some things can be shifting, and then also holding those back the investment accountable to its own performance, right. What did we promise the investors, right? What did you promise your lenders and the making sure that that commitment is, you know, being withheld and then also communicated, you know, if there's any areas of variance are pivoting needs? Right?

  Sean Thomson 48:03

  Yeah. Let's talk about this, we kind of identified a lot of things on both sides there are there, I guess, let's talk about either one, you can take, take your pick. What do most investors or some ownership groups that you've seen that you've worked with? What are the what are the what is their emphasis generally? And what should it probably be? Do they focus more on? You know, these property management issues? And then neglect asset management? Is there something that you see that a lot of people make mistakes on, that they should be focused on? Or that they do? Well? And that's, that's a good idea. You know, what I mean?

  Kim Bruggeman 48:35

  Sure. I mean, that's a great question. I think that kind of back to what I just said, you know, what I, you know, my history has afforded me the opportunity to, you know, as, as I've shared, you know, sit around a table from owners, investors, lenders, property management, groups, employees, vendors, you know, and listen to all different things, right. And so I can't tell you how often, you know, an employee will say, my management company stinks, you know, they don't support me, they don't, you know, they don't fix things. They don't, you know, and then the management company is not going to throw the owner under the bus and be like, well, he hasn't funded this or something received a challenge. So if you have to be, you know, very politically correct in a lot of areas, right. And then sometimes things have to change, or you have investors who have invested in what was a pro forma that somebody sold them on, right, and that things have changed, and nobody has communicated that. So I think one of the things that, again, I commonly see is people not beginning with that strong foundation, which is a whole nother episode that we've talked about as far as really identifying your core team, you know, and then when it's coming down to the property side, I think that when we talk about those, those four areas that I just share with the rest down to the retention. When I create a management plan or a one Edie does a capital plan, we rate our things with those As items as well, so then when something is a risk and liability, it always comes as a priority to the top because it's our nature to want to just kind of like in our own personalized, right, you want to have something that exterior exterior looks good, nobody wants to buy, you know, pajamas or fix your house and fix the windows, right? You know, something that's, you want to paint your house that looks pretty, and you want to get to the things that really look good, right. And so I think the same thing on on these assets they want to go, like I just talked about right into product improvement, and they're not identifying, I can't tell you how many scenarios I've seen where people just lost their entire investment by not identifying those things, and, and not being disciplined enough to, you know, either fund it when it has to be or pivot when it has to do and that's an pre buying that we've talked about, it's in managing and it's in raising more capital sometimes that an asset would need.

  Sean Thomson 50:51

  It's, it's more about people get excited about one component of executing their business plan, and they and they may have a bigger issue on something else, and they should focus their energy there first, and they just kind of get blinded into fixing the property instead of fixing the staff or vice versa. And your what you're saying is that they they needed to be able to set those priorities better, as a lot of times they don't, they just they just start to focus on what we are planning where we're gonna fix the property up, let's go fix the property up, well, you may need to re address your staffing issues first and then and then fix the property up. Is that what you're that's what you're saying?

  Kim Bruggeman 51:26

  100%. I mean, I'll give the visual of like juggling balls, right? You know, I mean, I always say that property asset construction, all the management in one is, is really just balancing different balls at different times, I mean, it's in your position as well, right of, of trying to purchase an asset, but for, for our side on the operations of the management entities, it's, it's about making sure that you're keeping all them at the same time, I can't tell you how many people will get one ball and focus on it, you know, it's like that, that mentality of looking at one thing, and but being able to also look at all the other ones at the same time and make sure they're all moving. Because if you're, if you're just focused on one item, you know, and a lot of people, Shawn will get that mentality of that just get it done mentality, right. And what they're missing is they think, Oh, I just I've got this time, I've got to get it done. But what they don't realize is what is collapsing around them, you know, and so, sometimes, you know, when a building is burning, and somebody is focused on the wire in the wall, right, you know, instead of like, what is the true issue. And so, I think, both in asset management and property management, both of those things have to be being identified, you know, from, from the on site, operational team, you know, who is there and, and that asset management component, and that asset management component can be part of your general partner side, or it's, you know, a completely, you know, neutral asset manager outside of that. But whatever it is, it's just that layer that's making sure that those balls are kind of going at the same time.

  Sean Thomson 52:53

  Then, it's about executing the priorities, not just executing the plan.

  Kim Bruggeman 52:57

  Yeah. And and that's exactly it. Because I can't tell you again, how many people go into it with I'm like, Hey, you show me your plan? And they're like, Oh, you mean, my underwriting? I'm like, No, no, no, like your plan? And then or, how do I turn this into a story? Right, you know, and so many times, I mean, I'm the one who has to make sense of those numbers. And that's kind of where I go back to that report, I was sharing, you know, from the property side is, you know, taking that and creating a true story, you know, and then being able to communicate when things like, do we have to rise something up to this priority? Because, you know, we didn't, that we had a flood in this unit, right. So it might have diverted our funds from, you know, these units that we returning here, because we had to move into a risk of liability issue here. And then we then we took that, and I updated my management plan back to, you know, which sometimes pivots our budget, right? So you really have to make sure that you're constantly moving those things. And sometimes if somebody's just doing it on on the operational site and not communicating that back to to your team, then, you know, you're I guess off that ball, and then it can be a slippery slope away from that.

  Sean Thomson 54:08

  Yeah, like you said, a lot of it, I think, may start that that problem probably really starts, like you said, with vision, and the initial planning of the business plan, and not having a good IV direction or clarity on what the priorities are and what to execute first and kind of going through that whole process of, of nailing down. Where do we start? And what do we really want to see at the end here? And then how do we get there? Right? So that's probably I would think, in the problem that you're describing. I think that probably comes from just beginning on day one, what is our vision here? And then how can we get there? That's what it sounds like to me. So that's probably the biggest issue!

  Kim Bruggeman 54:46

  100% it's even like in you know, like, what you and I share the same as well, it's like building that community. Right. So if we're taking over what is the what is the purpose of this investment? Obviously, it's to make money right, but but, you know, what is the point purpose that we're building here are we bringing to make this community better? where, you know, it's a family community, but they have no playground? You know, it's like, what is it that you and I are going to live here? And what does it have to look like and smell like and feel like, right? I mean, when I'm walking in from the car to my apartment, you know, does it feel safe to me? You know, when I'm washing my clothes? am I standing there because nobody thought to put a chair in there, because who wants to sit and wash their clothes and stare at a washing machine? Right? Is there something that we can make? You know, our purpose is to provide, you know, comfortable, safe, quality, affordable living, right? And so in that community, and then and then really identifying what our residents are looking for? Like we said, Are there a lot of animals? And do we want to create a dog area, I think a community is huge, with benches around the community and adding a playground that shows, you know, we pull on, we're seeing that activity in that life, you know, flowers, I know that, you know, that's huge to me, and I just that just shows me color and life and quality, you know, and so I think a lot of those things in all of those areas, and, and making sure that your on site team has won the finances to be able to support those things, but also, sometimes they need accountability to hold in that direction, you know, of what needs to be done, you know, because sometimes your property management side can only be focused on renovating that unit to get that, you know, if they're percentage driven, right, you know, they're gonna say, Well, I'm going to put my money right here, you know, because it's going to get me $800 a month in France from five. So it increases my noi, which is my immediate, but they're not thinking the long term for the investment. Right? So then did I do that, but then I didn't look at your decks that might have been falling apart over here that really don't make us money, they just will make us lose Fast Money if somebody falls off of it. Right? You know, so it's kind of making sure that you're always again, juggling all those balls. And looking at that.

  Sean Thomson 56:53

  Yeah, so from an owners perspective, I think it's critical that your property management is able to help you identify that culture that you're trying to convey, and then the business plan you're trying to operate under. And then it has the capacity to believe in that what you're trying to achieve there. And has the tools that they operate within, to help you get that message conveyed to your on site team and to monitor it to hold them accountable, like you said, and to keep that sort of that process moving forward. So you're always building that community as well as the technical stuff of turning units and remodeling units and, and then all the way up through to your asset management group who's doing the financial side of those, that same kind of thing, I guess. So I like it's, it's what you're just in talking to you, it's more critical to me to have that relationship with your property management, your asset management groups, that you're executing a vision really. So it's starting to emphasize to me how important that is really, that relationship is really important, I think.

  Kim Bruggeman 57:47

  And it's huge and helping to make sure also your your, your lender relationships, your draws in, especially, you know, when you purchase a lot of these assets, the lender will hold back escrows for you know, immediate repairs, or even your immediate callbacks, right, it's about recirculating that money and making sure that the money is in and out in your, you're establishing those procedures within your, you know, Investment Group, all the way down to your property management group who's paying those bills and making sure that we're submitting them in and getting that money back out to, to recirculate it to keep up with our plan. You know, I think that that's a big component that's missed. And, you know, and also site visits and seeing what's going on out there and communicating that. And I think that's huge as well.

  Sean Thomson 58:35

  Well, real quick, Kim, this will be my last question, but so when someone's trying to engage a property management group or an asset management group, what is it that they should focus on in terms of it's obviously that you have to have a relationship synergy there? But are there some sort of maybe questions you can ask to kind of drill down into that and see if they're a fit for you or not?

  Kim Bruggeman 58:56

  Sure. Again, you know, asking them what their their purpose, their vision and their culture are. And then going down to the technical side, on the asset management, I would ask them, you know, tell me about some challenging situations that you've had to navigate, you know, and how did you know, what were the problems? And how did you bring solutions? What did you foresee before it became, you know, an issue and then, you know, just asking them to share some of those experiences? Because, you know, are they willing to talk about the good, bad and the ugly, right? Or are they just gonna, you want somebody because that as, as you and I really value that that person is going to be, you know, in it to win it with you, right? And we have to be able to have that relationship together. So I think asking them, you know, and listening to what they're responding on that side, and then how they lead their property management company, asking them, you know, what types of reporting does the asset manager receive and review? How often is that reviewed? Is it just something you know, listening for those key points? Is it just something from the property management system You know, then you're they're not really building that relationship with that property management company, how often are they meeting with, with them to understand or how involved are they? You know, I think that that's really important than asking about on the asset management side, you know, give me your experience on due diligence and acquisitions, you know, tell me what you see, commonly, you know, when you go out to do a site visit, because your asset manager is going to help you with that beginning part, right, we're going to say, this is good, or this is not in and how they, you know, have successfully transitioned from acquisition through dispositions, you know, and I think just hearing that, and then, you know, on your property management side, you know, you're asking them, you know, what type of reporting that they're doing, they're gonna say, your standard, you know, financials, your marketing plan, one of the biggest things that I think is, tell me about how you do a market analysis, tell me, you know, oh, well, my property manager does that, you know, but for us, you know, our market analysis actually includes, you know, what is it that that is truly involved in what are the areas means, you know, what are, what are the demographics of this asset? What are, you know, what are they involved in? Do they have kids? Do they have more? Are they what is it that they that they're looking for, you know, safety is huge, you know, are they looking for a better community, this is a long term C class living, right, so, you're asking your property manager, how are management company, how they, how they, how they train their employees, you know, I asked him also how they review their employees, right, and communicate, and then, you know, how do you make sure that they're paying attention to your asset? And those reports are, are there you know, they're going to give you the politically correct answers, you know, and I think you want them to talk about how they've handled those hard discussions with things with their owners, you know, you know, have they ever had owners that didn't pay them? And how do they navigate through that? You know, and so and listen to those answers. You know, I think that's huge to identify, if that aligns with the way you would handle something personally, you know, do they take personal accountability?

  Sean Thomson 1:02:04

  Yeah, it sounds like because the relationship is so sort of integrated between ownership and management groups, that having that ability to have an open dialogue, even in the interview phase, would give you some indication if you're going to be a fit with that group or not? I would think so. Like you said, asking those difficult questions may be a good idea just to see if the, if that, that conversation is open and honest with each other, you know, I think it because you're going to have to have that moving forward. Because it's a very intimate process of executing this plan, and creating this culture and all these other things. So that's probably a good way to go about it.

  Kim Bruggeman 1:02:37

  I think you can train people on the technical things a lot, right? And, but you can't train them on who they are as a person. And so it's just like, your employees, right, you know, that I think you can give them the details and the skill of how to do your job, you know, but you can't train them on how to be a team player. And, you know, when when is the time that you have seen others in need, you know, I use this example at home with my kids, it's called outside the box, and I don't pay them their allowance based upon helping to do things, that's their job, right. And, you know, but when they do something that is not their job, that that sees a need from somebody else that needs to be done. And they help, that's when we reward them. And I really believe that's in your management company that's in your asset management's in your employees, you know, I don't believe in the standard leasing bonuses because I believe that's their job to lease right. And what I believe is in true KPI, bonuses, things that are going to make our asset, a better place to live in our investment, to be optimized to create a better investment value, you know, and those are the rewards that we should want our whole team to achieve.

  Sean Thomson 1:03:46

  Well, awesome. Well, Kim, thank you so much for sharing a ton of information with everybody I want to ask you one question we ask I asked us of everybody I you know, the podcast is called Next Level American Dream, and you're living your American Dream. Obviously, you've started your business, you're very successful with what you have going on, and you work with your family as well. Like I do. So tell us what what for you is the American Dream and maybe if you have one or two things that you've kind of deployed in your life that have helped you kind of level up your ability to achieve the American Dream for you.

  Kim Bruggeman 1:04:17

  So my dream is to live my best life on purpose, you know, and every day for me, it's about you know, our company's lighthouse, and it's about that what I do personally and professionally can align together for the benefit of all and I, you know, I've shared that I pray every day that you know, God's light shine in and through me and all that I do and and that whether it's personally or professionally that I give him all the glory and honor in that and and I just believe in as I'm blessed I want to continue to be able to bless others and you know, my dream is that I can pass or this life with great purpose and you know, profitability and what we're doing on the business side, but you know, when I lay my head down it on my pillow at night, I want to just know that I I've done a good job, and I've helped others. And I think, you know, Eddie feels that way and and I believe that any partner that we align ourselves with, that's important to me that we work that way and that they know and trust in us in the value that we're giving to each other and building each other up in that. So I think that that's my American Dream is to build a life that my children see and respect in me and others, and that somebody says that they're better for knowing, knowing me and our company being involved in their, in their businesses and in their personal lives of their homes.

  Sean Thomson 1:05:33

  Yeah, that's awesome. Well, how can so if someone wanted to kind of reach out to you maybe get your services, you're starting a podcast to I guess that's coming up as well? Is there anything you want to tell people how to reach out to you?

  Kim Bruggeman 1:05:46

  I'm super excited about my podcast coming, it's gonna be, "A Girlfriends Guide to Multifamily Investing, Management, and Life Beyond," where I help shine the light on the good, bad, and the ugly. So I'm excited to you know, as I mentioned, empower others and just surround myself with people that we can share stories and help others as well. So that will be coming soon. But you know, immediately, our company is Lighthouse Management Solutions, you can reach us at our website address, and then you can also my email is kbruggeman@lighthouse-mgmt.com -- So you know, and Sean will tell you, I'm reachable by cell phone, and I'm very personable to you know, our people.

  Sean Thomson 1:06:32

  Well, we will make sure to put those notes in so people can get to you and get to the podcast. And I'm sure your contact information is there on the website as well.

  Kim Bruggeman 1:06:48

  Just Google Lighthouse Management Solutions, and you'll see it and so yeah, definitely. And I'm more on LinkedIn, as well. And in social media.

  Sean Thomson 1:06:57

  Okay, perfect. Well, thank you so much, Kim. I really appreciate it was great catching up with you, too. We talked a ton before we started executing the podcast, but wonderful to talk to you. And I really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your best knowledge with everybody. All right.

  Kim Bruggeman 1:07:10

  Well, thank you all for having me! And I enjoyed it as always, john. Good. Good to catch up with you!

  Abigail Thomson 1:07:15

  Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level American Dream. If you would like to learn more about what we talked about today, want to contact a team member directly, or are interested in passively investing and being a part of our deal room, head over to our website at www.thomsonmultifamilygroup.com -- Before you go, please leave a review! Your comments help us create more episodes for you to enjoy.